CIF Main Page

Other CIF Interviews:

Susan Gaspar of The Free Associates

Yuri Kinugawa of Yellow Man Group

Stan Morse of Liquid Radio Players

Mick Napier of Annoyance Productions

Dan O'Connor of TNN's Lifegame

Joey Slotnik, Lauren Katz & John Lehr of Slotnik, Katz & Lehr

Don Hall of WNEP

Interview by Jeff Catanese

Entirely unable to catch up with this man during the festival, I was gladly able to conduct a phone interview soon after the fest.  He assured me at that time that he had gotten some sleep.  After our discussion I see Mr. Hall not so much as a creative force in improv, but more a philosopher.  He certainly has a lot to say.  As I edited this interview, I decided to keep the bulk of it in, if only because it was all equally interesting.  -JC

[Click here for a review of WNEP's Postmortem.]

Improv Review: Postmortem is a show about death.  Are you a creepy guy, or what?

Don Hall: I don’t think it’s about death, I think it’s about life.  It’s one of the things we work real hard on.  I tell the cast, and it’s sort of a mantra, assume the family is out there.  Because we take the obituary from that day’s paper.  I find a good obituary, and it doesn’t have to be an interesting life, but the requirements are that somebody in their life had to say something about them. 

Some obituaries are just, "Here’s what they did."  I’m looking for that one quote, "He loved strawberries," or whatever.  Somebody loved that person enough to say something about them in print.  So the show is really about celebrating what their life is.  My favorite thing is when you get to see the good and the bad.  "Cause nobody’s perfect, and nobody’s the happiest camper in the world, and everybody fucks up, and that’s life. 

The word for the show is balance.  It’s all about balance, man.  We had a guy that was a master salesman, and his obituary said he could sell anything to anybody.  So [Patrick] Brennen chose to make him highly manipulative.  And in the middle of his life he was kind of a dick.  He just manipulated people into buying shit.  A couple of characters explained to him that what he was doing was unethical, and in the last thirty years of his life he learned to be this incredibly honest salesman.  So we ended the life on a positive.  But he cheated on his wife in the middle, whether or not he did I don’t know, and that’s not the point. 

Improv Review: So you’re not morbid.

Don Hall: Am I morbid?  Goddamn right I am.  You bet I’m morbid.  The original ending of Armageddon Radio Hour had everyone committing suicide by drinking poisoned Kool-Aid, and as people left we gave them a glass of Kool-Aid as well. 

In one of my favorite pieces of film, Monty Python’s Meaning of Life, there is a scene in a boardroom and one guy has been figuring out the meaning of life.  And the first thing he says is, "People aren’t wearing enough hats."  Then he says the meaning of life is about the search for the meaning of life, very Buddhist, but we get derailed from the meaning of life because of petty and meaningless details.  Then the follow-up question is "what was that about hats?"  And I loved it because I think people get so embroiled in their bullshit, in day-to-day who-gives-a-shit stuff that seems important at the time.  And that’s what I think Postmortem is really about.  So, yeah, we’re a morbid little company.

Improv Review: What were some of the pitfalls you encountered doing a show with such and emotional/dramatic bent?

Don Hall: It has been sort of a double edge sword because people are afraid to come to the show because they are afraid that we are going to be making fun of dead people.  I think it’s a benefit, because if we can get them to come, they are amazed by the end of it.  They say, "Wow! It’s so respectful."  It is a funny show, and there’s a lot of funny stuff in it.  Sometimes the cast makes it a little goofy, but the humor comes with the characters around the subject.  It’s kind of like Nicholas Nickleby.  Nickleby isn’t funny or grotesque character, or obscene, but everyone in his life is.  In the best shows we have a person that is very grounded in reality, that the audience can empathize with, and we get to see these sometimes very bizarre characters that they interact with.  And that’s life because everybody looks at everybody else as being a bizarre character.  At least I do.  I look at everyone I work with and think, hat a bunch of fuckin’ freaks.  But I love them anyway, because if they were normal, how boring would that be. 

But I don't think improvisation has to be comedy.  I think it became comedy because it’s easy to sell.  I don’t think it’s any more or less easy to do, but it’s easy to sell, because people like light, meaningless entertainment.  That’s our twelve-year old mentality in this country.

Improv Review: So were you able to sell Postmortem as a piece of theater, as opposed to a piece of improv?

Don Hall: For a while we didn’t even tell people it was improvised.  Louise of the YESand.com bulletin board saw it and said she thought she came into the wrong show, because it didn’t seem like an improvised show.  That’s the greatest compliment for an improvised show, "Who wrote that?" 

Martin de Maat, rest his soul, one of the first things he taught me, and I never forgot it was that improv is writing.  And if it is writing, why do we allow so much horseshit to be written.  Think of the shows you’ve seen.  How many of those would you even put on paper for fear of getting struck down by some quality god?  Some of it’s crap and we allow it. I don’t think it has to do with scripting it out, it’s about respecting the fact that words have meaning, and relationships have meaning, and understanding the structure of what a good story is.  It’s [Keith] Johnstone.  Do a good story.  And if you can make it touching, or make it funny, or make it annoying, whatever. 

Any response from he audience is right.  TV does this and we end up doing in theater because we all grew up on TV.  We forget what TV was invented for.  TV was not invented for quality programming; it was invented to sell advertising.  That’s all TV is.  So the shows have to be simple, and they have to be able to say, "This is a comedy, you should laugh."  Like Sports Night.  Remember Sports Night?

Improv Review: I actually hooked on it in reruns, in fact.

Don Hall: What a fuckin’ great show.  But it’s not as funny as you think it should be, so it got cancelled.  People think, oh, it’s a comedy.  But they had some really in depth stuff, and some great characterizations, and it was terrifically funny at times.  And people didn’t know how to take it.

Improv Review: If people aren’t told exactly what it is, they won’t be endeared to it.

Don Hall: Exactly.  If it’s not Macaroni & Cheese or a Big Mac, we’re not interested.  We don’t want anything that’s challenging that might be unusual.  Oh my God.  That’s why WNEP does the shows we do.  Jen [Ellison, WNEP’s Artistic Director] really calls the shots artistically, but ultimately we are real simpatico on it.  We don’t want to please everybody.  We don’t want the mass audiences to come see our shows.  Sure, we’d like the money.  But think of everything that mass audiences like.  They’re shit.  It’s like centrist politics, no one takes a position, no one stands for anything.  Big Macs on the nutritional scale suck!  But everyone eats Big Macs.  It’s popular, but that doesn’t make it good.  I’d rather be that little café that serves great food that very few people know about.

Improv Review: I recently had someone tell me that Outback Steakhouse has the best prime rib, and I thought, there’s some little guy who slaughters cows in his back yard who has the best prime rib.

Don Hall: It’s individual attention.  It’s taking the time to not worry about a million people coming through…

Improv Review: Just the one’s who are.

Don Hall: Yeah.

Improv Review: Sounds fair.  What does WNEP stand for?

Don Hall: I always debate whether or not I’m going to tell people this.

Improv Review: Well, you’re on the record, so you can say anything you want to say.

Don Hall: We’ve got several versions.  One is: It doesn’t stand for anything, we just liked it.  The second is, make up an acronym: We Need Every Penny, We Never Expect Profit, we have a million of those.  Actually, it originally stood for What Now Entertainment Productions.  And I couldn’t get a non-profit status but they wouldn’t tell me why.  So I drove down to Springfield and said "What the fuck?"  They were a little offended by that, but they told me that it sounds too much like a commercial venture.  I said, "Are you kidding me?  How about WNEP Theater Foundation?  Is that pretentious enough for you?"  She said, "Yeah."  Two weeks later that’s what we were stuck with.

Improv Review: You worked really hard during the festival.  You donated your space; you donated your time as technical director.  What do you get from working in a festival environment?

Don Hall: I think it’s an important festival.  We’re in Chicago, and the Jazz Fest is here and Jazz wasn’t born in Chicago.  Not that improv was invented in Chicago, but it’s sort of the birthplace of modern American improv.

Improv Review: It is the Mecca…

Don Hall: The Blues Fest is here, and the blues aren’t from Chicago.  But it’s a huge part of Chicago history.  Improvisation as a mainstay theatrical convention in American theater was born in Chicago, and I think it’s important to have as big a festival as possible.  Another reason I like to be a part of the festival is that I "meet" a hundred people online, that I never get to see.  The problem with working the festival is I get to place a face to the name, then I have to go over here.  But I like the festival and I like Jonathan [Pitts, Festival Coordinator] and he and I have a similar vision, and to be bluntly honest, it’s good press for WNEP.

Improv Review: You seem to relish the position of technician.  What technical advice do you have for the improv community?

Don Hall: Do more of it.

Improv Review: Do more with lights, sound…

Don Hall: Sure.  The thing that separates improv from most standard theater, in my opinion, is the use of technical stuff.  We can’t costume ourselves, but we can.  You don’t have to dress up in polyester pants and red and blue T-shirts.  Shaun [Himmerick] and Fuzzy [Gerdes of The Bare Essentials] are doing theater that I’m directing and I told them they have to get some nice clothes.  They asked why, and I told them because I’ve got to look at you from up in the booth.  Go get some pressed shirts, tie, and I told them to find some colors to complement you.  And they look great!  Fuzzy Gerdes looks better onstage than he’s ever looked.  He’s dressed up.  When I pay my ten bucks to see a show, just wearing some nice clothes says, "I care about the fact that you spent your hard earned dollar instead of going to see Bruce Willis blow some shit up." 

Another thing to think about is openings and closings.  We could take a great cue from Blue Man Group.  The minute you step into the theater, you are now their prisoner; you are in their world, in their show.  From the lobby to the pre-show lighting, you are in their world.  Think about the illusions of what lights are: they are there to direct your focus.  Decide what you want them to see and use your lights to make that happen.  It’s such an easy thing to do it amazes me that so few groups take the time to do that.  It’s also the veneer of, "Hey, we’re making it up.  It’s raw."  Guess what, nobody fuckin’ cares.  If that’s the only selling point of your show, who cares, a billion other people are making it up; you might as well be in the basement at a frat party.  Do something that makes it theatrical and people will come back.  They’ll talk about it, they’ll be moved…

ComedySportz has lights and sounds before the show and then they start the show, and then at that point, once they’ve done the opening, lights up—lights stay up, then they do the show.  And at the end, there’s some more lights and sound.  And it’s just a nice way to punctuate the beginning “this is theater”  We do that with Post Mortem.  We have the opening and then we have the closing the way we do it.  I don’t know if you heard about the way they closed My Grandma’s a Fat Whore from Jersey [a past WNEP production].

Improv Review: No.

Don Hall: I hate curtain calls…

Improv Review: As do I.

Don Hall: Yeah, with a passion, I hate them.  So what Matt and Jen did was as soon as they finished their final set, lights would come up and they were standing there, neutral, with no look on their face, and their direction was to stand there and to look every audience member in the eye for as long as they could.  And the audience didn’t know what the fuck to do.

Improv Review: Excellent

Don Hall: It was always a different experience, because the audience would decide whether or not they would perform for us.  Because that’s really what happened.  We’re watching them.  I think the longest they stood was like six and a half or seven minutes.  Standing in dead silence, staring at the audience.  I love that, because nobody knew… one of them would very quietly say, “We’re done” and hit a hard blackout, loud music and generally the audience would go ape shit.  It’s pulling that silent tension rubber band as far as you can pull it.  So when we’re done, blackout, loud music and it’s, “Wow!  Oh my god!”  And that’s very theatrical and weird and fun.  It sets it apart.

Improv Review: Well, it’s also the emotional experience that theater seems to be trying so hard to get away from, instead of going to like they used to.

Don Hall: Exactly.  American theater hasn’t had a revolution in a long time.  There hasn’t been a big change in the way we do theater since the 30’s, really and there was the Ridiculous Theater and The Living Theater and they changed some things, but there hasn’t been a giant, conventional shift in how theater’s done.  And if there isn’t a shift it’s going to die and become an anachronism because it can’t compete against…you know Cameron Mackintosh [producer of Miss Saigon, Cats, et. al.] is fuckin’ Satan from hell, because all he said was “Hey, you know movies have all this spectacle, I’m going to build a fucking 750,000 foot Chairman Mao statue and have a helicopter fly off of it.”  Give me a fucking break.  No wonder it cost $700 to see The Producers. 

That’s where I think the shift is, and that’s where I think improvisation is going to lead us, is I think that improvisation is the purest art form, just coming out and improvising, is always going to be around.  It’s too late to turn back—too many people are into it.  The real influence of improvisation is going to have on regular theater is that the use of the audience and the interaction of the audience and making the audience more a part of the experience than just bland spectators who just sit back and watch these little puppets dance around onstage.  I think that’s going to be the next major shift in American Theater

Improv Review: I agree with you.

Don Hall: And I think that’s a good shift.  ‘Cause we have to do that, if we don’t’ do that they can sit back and not move and just spectate in a dark room inside of a freakin’ movie Cineplex and they never have to worry about being touched or being scared…

Improv Review: Or hurt…

Don Hall: Anything.  In theater we have that opportunity.  We could stop the show and get up and beat the shit out of somebody.  What the fuck would they do?  They don’t know that.  How bland an experience is that?

Improv Review: Switching gears a bit…  Your cast s not made up of people one finds to be typical improvisors.

Don Hall: I don’t cast improvisors.

Improv Review: Really.  Do you find them, or do they find you?

Don Hall: It’s a combination of the two.  We just had auditions for Postmortem, to expand the cast because the original seven was getting a little crispy and stuck in a rut.  Out of the five [new performers], three are improvisors, but they’re also actors.  I have much more respect for people who can act.  And it’s not even a matter of, here’s somebody who can get a script and create a character.  It’s approaching their work with a certain ethic, a certain amount of intensity, and a certain amount of respect for what they do onstage.  It’s like taking a history course.  They’ve got to know the history or I’ll bust their ass.  They’ve got to know the slang from the different decades.  You cant’ do decade references in that show because we’d segue it with music and sound so everyone already knows were in the 40’s.  So coming out saying “Well FDR said you can’t do that” it’s stupid because they already know it’s the 40’s.  So you have to be able to physically embody—it’s about wearing hats in the 30’s.  Everybody wore hats in the 30’s—even bums.  Even hobos were better dressed than we are now.  They wore hats and suits—they might have been shitty ones, but they still had that going for them. 

I always look for actors who can improvise.  And I am a firm believer that anyone who can get up onstage and act can learn to improvise.  I don’t think improvising is that difficult and I don’t think acting is that difficult either.  I think the whole Meisner thing is overrated because all Meisner is trying to do is get you to be as natural as you and I are being right now having a conversation.

Improv Review: You’re really talking like me.  I should have just interviewed myself.  It would have saved me the phone bill anyway.  (Laughter)

Don Hall: I will ask you the questions now Jeff.  (Laughter)  Are you morbid?

Improv Review: I’m a morbid son of a bitch.  I’m also misanthropic.  I think that feeds me more than anything.  Here’s a little bit of irreverence for you…  You seem to revere the use of sound and music in your show.  Give us your top 5 albums that we should all go out and buy right now.

Don Hall: Damn your eyes!  It’s the Daily Show!  It’s the 5 questions!  I would say…the first album that should be on every improvisor’s list is the “A&M Records 25^th Anniversary Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass Classics, Volume 1,” because they’re all short and there’s nothing you could possibly do better to rehearse silent scenes set to the music.  You want to learn how to do a silent scene?  Do it to the Tijuana brass and you’ll win.  Second is “A Fistful of Morricone,” it is a two-disc compilation of scores from Ennio Morricone.  He is the composer who wrote all the spaghetti westerns and the “Mission” and Italian and Spanish films and, uh…

Improv Review: “The Untouchables.”

Don Hall: He did “The Untouchables” and I think that music is extraordinary and I think it is great to improvise to because there’re no words.  Each piece of music tells it’s own story.  Just for sheer listening pleasure “Abbey Road.”  I love the Beatles hardcore and that’s my favorite album.  I would say…  I am a big fan of movie scores.  Two more…um…. one or the other…this falls under a general heading…an album called “Jubilation: Great Gospel Performances, Vol. 2.”  It’s a great one, but you could also go with “The Apostle” or “Oh, Brother, Where Art Thou?”  Fun, joyous music.  I dig it.  The last one…  In general, anything by Henry Rollins including Spoken Word.  If you want the raw, go for the Black Flag days, if you want a little more polished, more subdued Rollins, but still pissed off—but smart!  You could go for the Rollins Band stuff or Spoken Word.  I could listen to that all day long.  Or Lenny Bruce Live at Carnegie Hall.

Improv Review: I think you’ve got ten in there now.

Don Hall: Ah, I cant’ help myself!  That’s a hard question to answer.

Improv Review: Here’s the final question…  What is the most important element of improv?

Don Hall: The most important element of improv?  Yourself.

Improv Review: Self.  Good answer.

Don Hall: Thank you.  I got it right!  Yay!

Improv Review: You got it right.  Actually that’s the same answer that everyone gives.  Nah, I’m just kidding.

Don Hall: Actually, that would make me feel good.  At least we’re all on the same page somewhere.

Improv Review: You know that’s not going to happen.

Don Hall: Never.  There are no improv gurus anymore.  Our big 3 are dead.  They all died.  They’re all dead so now there’s 15, 16, 18, 25 all carrying on their own splinter group kind of things.  That’s good.  That’s healthy.  It’s healthy for the art form.  It’s healthy for the people who do it.  Everybody can improvise—not everyone can be funny.  That doesn’t mean it’s limited to that so do what you’ve got to do.  Life’s too short.  At any minute a plate glass window could slip out of the sky, float down like a big giant feather and decapitate you.  And if that happens, are you going to be really sad that you spent the last fuckin’ week of you r life worrying about paying your rent?  How shitty is that?  What a lousy life that is.  Do what you got to do that brings you joy.  Have the fun you got to have—This is just the physical part of the journey, so dig what you can.  If I live to 65 it will be a miracle.  I smoke, I drink, I eat meat, and I don’t exercise.  I’m building my heart attack one brick at a time.  And I smoke because I like to.  It’s fun, I like it and I’m real good at it.